Thursday, April 20, 2017

Podcast #111 - S5E14 - Say Something

Hello! Welcome to Return to Stars Hollow - a spoiler-free, retrospective podcast about Gilmore Girls! This is the podcast for Season 5, Episode 14 - Say Something.

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The next podcast will post on Thursday, April 20, 2017 for Season 5, Episode 15 - Jews and Chinese Food.


  1. Greetings! Thanks for another wonderful episode. I want to say I very much agree with Amy's and Michael's feedback on Rory's growing elitism/entitlement. Whether or not it is realistic to her character (and I do think it's plausible, as I think Lorelai spoiled her in a lot of ways while she was at home, and played the 'mom card' so little), I don't think it's enjoyable to watch, especially if we're still supposed to think of Rory as relatable at this point in the show.

    But more than her entitlement and elitism, what bothers me about Rory in these episodes in her interactions with Logan is her passivity. I definitely think Logan's being manipulative, whether he's fully conscious of it or not, and Rory responds to him as if he knows more about her than she knows about herself; as if he somehow knows what's best for her. Rory being that unsure of herself, and that willing to give someone else the reins, in a sense, when it comes to her decisions, is deeply annoying to me. But it does bring to mind some Gilmore Girls commentary I once read, that posited that Rory is more like Christopher than Lorelai, easily swayed by stronger personalities. I can totally see that. And I don't think it's unrealistic for Rory to be as unsure of herself as she is when she's so young. But I don't think that's what the show is trying to get across, and I don't enjoy watching it play out in Logan and Rory's interactions.

  2. I was more annoyed with Rory than I was with Marty here. I still can't tell if she's supposed to know that Marty likes her or if she's supposed to be clueless though. Either way, Marty is so clearly uncomfortable and Rory either doesn't notice (which is hard to believe at times because how can she be that blind?) or ignores it. First she corners and basically forces him to spend time with her and then, when it's actually going pretty well and Logan shows up, she'd rather spend time with him and his friends and drags Marty along even though it's clear he doesn't want to. Logan was weird in that scene too though, he doesn't really wait for an answer, just says he'll wait outside and leaves? Of course Marty could have said no to both the movie night with Rory and Chinese dinner with Logan but from what we've seen from his personality so far and when Rory is looking at him like that, I believe that he would go agree to what she wants either way. At least he finally tells her that he likes her at the end and accepts that she likes Logan, which, ok, is the bare minimum of what he can do but after the nice guy discussions on the podcast I'm glad it didn't go differently. And of course Rory can't handle people not liking her so she still wants to be friends with him. Sure, she likes hanging out with him but that still felt a little insensitiv,e to not at least offer to give him some time and space.

    One thing I like about Logan is how clearly he asks for consent in the last scene, asking twice if Rory wants him to leave and Rory very clearly saying nope, she wants this.

    Only on this show and only because it's Kirk would a grown man playing the main role in a primary school production not be completely creepy, but make for a touching moment instead. The power of Kirk.

  3. Poor old Marty -- the writers finally give him something interesting to do, and it's right on his way out the door. The show usually does a good job when it tries to illustrate class issues, and the scene with Marty standing outside the restaurant is really good.

    One problem that I have with the Logan/Rory relationship is that dating a guy who is so rich he has a limo on standby is not something I can relate to at all (and I suspect that's true for most of the viewing audience). It's the show giving us a fantasy. But Marty feeling paralyzed by the $18 in his checking account, not wanting to be Logan's charity case -- yeah, that hits home. One thing colleges do is throw together people from across the class spectrum and it leads to some interesting interactions. (One of the weirdest conversations I had in college was when my roommate and her friends thought I was really poor, which I wasn't, because I had only one set of bedsheets.)

    Of course, it would have worked even better if the writers had made Marty an actual character before this; then his pain and embarassment would have registered even more.

    Questions to ponder, especially in light of Emily's anti-Luke campaign: would Emily have approved of Max? (Did they ever meet?) If Marty was an actual love interest for Rory, would Emily have approved of a Yale guy who wasn't rich?