Thursday, March 30, 2017

Podcast #108 - S5E11 - Women of Questionable Morals

Hello! Welcome to Return to Stars Hollow - a spoiler-free, retrospective podcast about Gilmore Girls! This is the podcast for Season 5, Episode 11 - Women of Questionable Morals.

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The next podcast will post on Thursday, April 6, 2017 for Season 5, Episode 12 - Come Home.


  1. Last episode: Of course just when I say I'm excited to hear everyone's thoughts, nobody leaves a comment discussing it. I'm going to argue with myself then, because I did go back and forth on it. First of all, the reason I said I was excited for a discussion about Luke/Lorelai/Chris, and not Rory/Christopher, was because I thought that part was great, but the triangle would be more divisive.
    At first I thought, this feels really repetitive because we had the same storyline two episodes before and I couldn't decide if that made it better or worse. I really liked what Celeste said about this being an amplified version of the lunch they had though. That's a good way to put it.
    Then I thought it was weird that Lorelai lied to Luke because he told her before that he was fine with her meeting Chris. At the time I didn't think we were supposed to read anything into Lorelai's reaction to that. So I think Lorelai could have explained the situation and hoped that Luke would understand it and believed and trusted her. Now in hindsight maybe Lorelai lying to Luke colours our view of the earlier scene in that Lorelai thought Luke telling her that was weird or maybe she didn't really believe him or something like that. And that's why she's afraid to tell him about this now.
    There was also a moment in the diner I found very strange that I don't think you mentioned. Before Lorelai can answer when Luke asks her what's up, Rory jumps in saying it was her fault because she kept Lorelai up all night, and I felt like Lorelai more or less just went along with it. I'm curious what Lorelai would have said if Rory hadn't jumped in first like that. It also felt a little off because Rory told both Chris and Lorelai to stay away from each other because they'll mess up Luke and Lorelai's relationship, whether they mean to or not. Maybe Rory thinks Luke knowing about Lorelai staying with Chris all night would destroy the relationship, but on the other hand, she can't honestly believe that lying like this is a good plan.

    This episode:
    I loved Lane and the band's plot. I like that Lane brought up that Mrs. Kim yelled at Zach in the street. A little too late, but still better than nothing. Brian and Gil at the "party" were really fun. And I think it's funny and believable that Zach and Mrs. Kim start getting along over criticizing Lane's decision. I mean, sucks for Lane, but at least there's something good about it. I guess we'll see if this lasts or if Mrs. Kim is back to hating Zach the next time we see her.
    I gotta ask though: Is Gil right? Does doing a countdown in german sound depressing to you, too?

    The last scene, oh boy... I believe that Emily would do something like this, even though I don't want to because I want her to be better that this. It also seems even worse because she and Lorelai have been getting along really well for the last few episodes. They didn't really point it that out in the dialogue, like they did for example with the pudding in Rory's Birthday Parties. But looking back, there were some really nice moments between them. This should pretty much desroy that - if Chris takes action and/or Lorelai hears about this conversation.
    Emily is also comically rude here, not just to Luke, but to Chris, too. He's weak and has bad timing and she never really liked him all that much but at least he doesn't own a diner. Also, Emily objecting to Luke because he's divorced while she was just seperated from her husband and while talking to Chris who has two children out of wedlock? Sure, that's a good argument. The only nice thing she says here is that Lorelai is able to achieve greatness. I wish she would tell that to Lorelai from time to time. But it's why I do believe that Emily believes that she is doing the right thing here for her daughter.

    1. I love everything you have said about last week Mareike and I completely agree. I think Rory lying to Luke and Lorelai going along with it is the most interesting thing in the episode.

      Regarding the last scene in this week, I think there is a reason why Emily doesnt mind that Chris has two children out of wedlock. Firstly one of the children is Rory and I think in Emily's mind if Lorelai and Chris were together then that wouldnt matter anymore. Regarding Gigi I think it is very interesting that Emily really focuses on the past in her conversation with Christopher, she isn't trying to appeal to him as the person he currently is, but as the person he was before Sherrie got pregnant. I think that is why she mentions that he would have married Lorelai if Sherrie hadn't gotten pregnant with 'This'. I think she is exhibiting a bit of a Gilmore Girl characteristic here. We heard Rory say it about Dean - He loved her first. I think it is similar with Emily, Chris and Lorelai were together first so if they were together gain then all the stuff that happened in between would be 'erased' - this isnt the exact word I want to use but I am struggling to think of the word that best expresses my feelings. I think that is in part why she cant bring herself to aknowledge Gigi as Chris' daughter, calling her 'this' and 'the child' instead.
      I also think that sadly it is in Emily's character to do this. It makes me sad because I would have hoped that after the separation from Richard and now their subseuent reconciliation Emily would have learnt something about love, but apparently not. it's a shame, I was hoping for character growth and like you I want her to better than this.

    2. On second thought, maybe what Emily says about Lorelai isn't that nice either because it implies that she hasn't done anything great so far?

      I really like the point Amy makes about Emily talking about the past. And I also agree with your point about the character growth. And i's specifically the moment when she sees how happy Lorelai is, in her relationship, maybe thinking about marriage, that she makes the decision to intervene.

  2. Hello Cordia and Celeste! I have so many comments that come to mind whenever I'm listening, but I seldom seem to have the time to write them down. I hate to make this kind of comment the one I actually post, but after just listening to your podcast for We Got Us A Pippi Virgin, I just wanted to make sure someone had mentioned the issues of racism in Pippi Longstocking. I totally never noticed this reading them as a kid, but if people are reading them to their kids today, they might want to be aware of some of the issues. Although apparently there are some un-racism-ized versions available now if folks are interested in that? At any rate, here's a couple of articles in case people are interested.
    (although perhaps there is a significant difference between the Sweden version and the US version?)

    I found a New York Times article to please Rory and Paris and Doyle. ;)

    And of course I totally agree with you about the many wonders of the amazing Pippi! I just don't want people to be caught off guard, especially if reading to kids, and perhaps especially kids of color.

    love the podcast! you are both awesome. :)

    1. I haven't read the article yet and I don't know about The US version, but in the German translation of the book they definitely changed the title of Pippi's dad to "King of the South Seas" and the name of the language to "Taka-Tuka-Language" a few years ago.